MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 11, 2009 18:18:19 GMT -5
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MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 12, 2009 21:47:09 GMT -5
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Post by crystalriver on Mar 13, 2009 22:12:18 GMT -5
I do believe some of this is correct yet, I know there is much more to it; as do most of us that have dealt with this for many years.
The meth was placed into the public by the same group that made morgellons; it was to hide it. You have to go back to World War 11 if you really want the truth--for America --you might want to look into the bringing over of the scientists--project paper clip I believe.
This person, Trisha, wrote me a frantic letter how she was dealing with this and was going to get to the bottom of it. She knew I was digging deeply into what was going on. The letter was filled with misspelled words like a Morgie and she was as I stated previously claiming to be one. Next thing I hear is about changing the name-from Morgellons to Body Bugs- there are several other conditions that fit into the parameters of Morgellons--the logic of splitting the community once more was beyond me.
She stated that they were going to have a show called body bugs; here is the rub, not everyone gets bugs--that typically happens in the coastal areas.
Than come her products for sale and she shows up at Lymebusters saying she isn't a Morgie but she is here to help--how can one explain her representing herself as a Morgie in about 5 emails to me and than she doesn't have it--it doesn't just go away.
I don't misrepresent myself nor do I respect those that do.
I will not deny that there is some truth in these articles but I still leave with questions especially of the character of this person--if they will misrepresent on one thing what stops them from misrepresenting on anything else?
Many Blessings, CrystalRiver
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MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 14, 2009 7:41:30 GMT -5
Trish didn't write those blog posts? I'm very confused here as to what Trish has to do it. I did receive some rather nasty hate mail towards her however which I didn't allow to be posted on my blog (and took other action regarding the email which I will not state here). This is why at the top of my blog I state you will not find certain theories discussed. I will not be bullied, or pulled into the Morgellons political power struggles, I could give a crap about that, people involved and doing that hurt our effort more than the doctors themselves. I am only following the little evidence we have and let the facts lead me whereever they may. Even your post above makes it sound like Trisha wrote this, this infighting has got to stop. Doesn't anyone have any forgiveness left in their hearts these days? I honestly just cannot believe it. Maybe the Good Lord won't let a cure be found until the infighting stops, frankly, I wouldn't blame Him. Meth was compared to us simply because they have lesions and claim to have bugs all over all them, nothing more. Again, there is no conspiracy needed here about meth. Anybody who has seen a meth user and then hears of the symptoms of morgellons would immediately make the connection (Morgellons users are not Meth users of course) but like my article says, their sores and their crawling, our sores and our crawling are both caused by Toluene. Morgellons might be cured by now had we just stuck to the facts. Instead we get people doing all kinds of inter-disease hate mail, blacklisting, and research power struggles, if only had they, and still if they, simply cooperated. This is a very disappointing problem in our community. I don't believe I have bugs, my sensation is caused by Toluene just as it is for meth users. And I have never agreed with breaking morgellons up into all kinds of splinter groups based on symptoms either, for the record, we all have the same thing, the same root cause. I have received lots of mail and thank you's, and there are also a lot of "ya, that makes sense, but it can't be just that". The problem is, it can be just that, that is why my blog is called Mundane, because Morgellons will turn out to be Mundane cause and not some Spectacular cause. People could in fact be dismissing the root cause simply because it's not spectacular enough instead of demanding that researches look into Toluene or Putida, they move onto other more spectacular and spell-bounding stories on other sites. It's almost like everyone's been worked up so much that no diagnoses will do unless it the most incredible, bizarre, conspiratorial thing ever discovered, well, that just isn't going to be the case. I found a post on another forum where Dr. Kolb and Dr. Staninger did a radio show and talked of finding Toluene in peoples bloodwork. Also, On this thread on lymebusters lymebusters.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=rash&action=display&thread=11955 at least one or two have confirmed tests with Toluene in their blood. A quote from a Dr Susan Kolb and Dr Staninger Radio show “The solvent toluene was found in patient’s blood using advancing biological monitoring tests. ”From post #5 on this thread: www.morgellons-disease-research.com/Morgellons-Message-Board/morgellons-treatment/3857-dr-hildegarde-staninger-environmental-toxicologist.html
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Post by maggiemae on Mar 14, 2009 8:28:43 GMT -5
Thank you CR....high roads, low roads...whose getting there first.
Mm
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MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 14, 2009 11:20:01 GMT -5
One more thing, my blog is written to the outsider, the non-morgellons suffer, that is why I make some statements on my site about conspiracy and other things. That is why I take Meth and turn it into an argument in our favor, my point was to not only explain Morgellons but to keep it down to earth so that when and outsider reads it he or she comes away the uneasy feeling that they might be wrong, this might be real, and that they do not want to get it, so they too can work for us instead of against us, so if you read future blog posts remember, its the outside world I consider my audience, though of course sufferers and researchers are the ones I hope read it. I'm just explaining why my writing is different than some other sites.
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Post by theresad on Mar 14, 2009 17:11:23 GMT -5
This person, Trisha, wrote me a frantic letter how she was dealing with this and was going to get to the bottom of it. She knew I was digging deeply into what was going on. The letter was filled with misspelled words like a Morgie and she was as I stated previously claiming to be one. Than come her products for sale and she shows up at Lymebusters saying she isn't a Morgie but she is here to help--how can one explain her representing herself as a Morgie in about 5 emails to me and than she doesn't have it--it doesn't just go away. I don't misrepresent myself nor do I respect those that do. Many Blessings, CrystalRiver Trish has told me that she had morgellons. MRC is misrepresenting who he is too.
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Post by crystalriver on Mar 14, 2009 18:08:30 GMT -5
I'm begining to wonder if the timing of this occurring is going right along with Coast to Coast and Linda Moulten Howe--bird connection.
I do believe many misdirections are now taking place; so you have to wonder what the next big play will be.
Thank You Maggiemae and Theresad--lets keep them honest--or at the very least point out their deceptions.
We want the Truth---We won't settle for less--
Many Blessings, CrystalRiver
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MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 14, 2009 18:35:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry you guys feel that way, how can our community move foward when everybody is a liar or trying to misdirect everyone from the real truth? How could I have misrespresented who I am? I never even said who I was. I am a morgellons sufferer, nothing more. I'll be honest, I'm saddened, but I forgive you for not trusting you, and to be honest, because of the infighting I don't blame you, this is what it has come to, distrust everyone. I'm amazed, I mean I'm not even selling anything or recommending any products, didn't you think the articles were worth reading, and of sparking more thought?
This is why my blog is like it is, so many factions, so much distrust, how could you possibly distrust me, you cannot say my post is a lie, it's simple statements and facts. I would ask you guys please hold off on hanging me out to dry just yet. On my about page I made a plea to the communtiy to stop this infighting.
I am going to tell you the truth right now. I have no agenda other than finding the truth. There is nothing more I can say so you will just have to judge me by actions. I am grateful cyrstalriver that you did take the time to read the articles.
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Post by crystalriver on Mar 14, 2009 19:36:41 GMT -5
I read every bit of information that comes my way regarding Morgellons.
There is a huge push to put this into a bird mite/flu type category-
Obviously no one wishes to bring forth the truth; they think lets make it palitable ---
Palitable and Truth are not in the same category--Truth is often distasteful but that doesn't make it any less true.
If the CDC or any other news agency pushes a BS idea to make it more acceptable --it won't wash with those of us who have dealt with this more than half our lives---we will call it as we see it.
It would be wonderful if scientists could find the truth without fear of dying don't you think? Those that want the truth hidden; could use this technology again if the truth isn't told. So for everyones sake they best bring forth the truth--I'm at maximum density of BS.
Many Blessings, CrystalRiver
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Post by sunnydaze on Mar 15, 2009 11:31:40 GMT -5
mrc - You say you want the truth and follow the facts, yet your currency is deception. Deception is very, very hard to maintain. You have to remember every lie you tell and have it make sense; it all has to hang together. First, you claim that Citovsky saw patients and commented on biofilms. Lies. He dealt strictly with samples sent to him. He was contacted in order to determine the presence of agrobacteria. Then you claim that other researchers followed Dr. Wymore's lead in looking into toluene. Utter nonsence; he never made any such statements. Then you claim to want to stop the infighting, yet it seems you are in the center of most of the hurricanes that erupt. I vacillate between thinking that your purpose is destruction/disinformation or that you are driven by wanting so desperately to be the big shot - the "top of the heap" so to speak, the center of attention - that you will do anything. What you have not learned - indeed seem incapable of learning - is that you cannot gain that status through manipulation of people, circumstances, and fact in order to gain it. You need to go into seclusion, as you often do, but this time instead of re-emerging with a new "plan of attack", spend the time in introspection. To thine own self be true. What's the old expression about fooling some of the people, etc? People know who you are. sunnydaze
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Post by sunnydaze on Mar 18, 2009 10:42:43 GMT -5
mrc/Grady - I just read on another forum where you have revealed your true identity. You ask (above) what Trisha has to do with it. I will be as clear as I can be without going on for pages. The thinking style, trashing virtually everyone else's research and theories (while quoting Dr. Staninger??), have the same flavor as Trish's inconsistent, thingysure (while contradictory) proclamations. Then you comment that Trisha "gets it" (and evidently no one else). You post on your blog at 3:30 in the morning, followed by a post by Trisha within minutes. So it was either HER posting originally, that you two were colluding, or an incredible coincidence. That "adoration" is familiar. I will explain. It is well known that Trisha trawls all the boards, seeking to snatch potential "allies" to bolster her. I was going to say to bolster her theories, but they change from minute to minute, so I guess what she is trying to bolster is her self-esteem and "fame". I am sorry for you, because you were clearly tooled by a woman who will use anyone to try to make a name for herself. She has burned through so many people in the Morgellons world - victims and researchers alike - that I'm surprised she can still ensnare anyone. Unfortunately, the people who get sucked in and manipulated are either really hurting and vulnerable, or they are new and naive. I also feel sorry for that Minton woman; she was fed so much crap that she wrote these inaccuracies (such as the Citovsky statements above). Once again, the purpose of seeking this woman out was self-aggrandizement and not to convey accurate information. "Beacon of light"....give me a break! I wish you the best, Grady. I suggest you support the legitimate scientists, like Wymore, Staninger, etc, and steer clear of the pseudo-scientists. Maybe look into fund-raising or awareness-raising efforts to make some true inroads. Are you attending the conference in Austin in a couple of weeks? It would be good for you!! sunnydaze
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Post by crystalriver on Mar 18, 2009 11:24:41 GMT -5
Thanks sunnydaze for keeping us aprised on the situation--I know it to be true.
This person Trisha also used someone at Rumormill News attempting to put forth her message of everyone else is nothing and I know everything---pushing products.
I believe the poster was Islandgirl but do not recall as she was diminished in her message after following this woman.
Island Girl (as I say I can't recall the name for sure) called me because she had a sister in law with the condition--I spent hours on the phone and sent a great deal of information--next thing --they are posting this womans products and appeals for belief in her.
I just went out and found the collaberating information from those who have been researching---It flew in the face of what was being presented.
I wish also to thank Theresad at this time--I did send her a pm --don't know if she saw it.
Many Blessings, CrystalRiver
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MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 24, 2009 21:04:47 GMT -5
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Post by alankey on Mar 25, 2009 21:40:37 GMT -5
how amusing........... my pattern recogntion is to high....and i need not think in hex to do that.
they always say the greatest battles are fought with yourself.
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Post by Awake on Mar 26, 2009 7:24:16 GMT -5
Isn't it so obvious that everyone's running an agenda -- .Either your deceived or you are working as a governmnet agent. Speading disinformation as always to lead the vulnerable astray. It is so obvious to see. Do you really think you can push this into the dark indefinitely...Well you are wrong. The dark is going to come to the light. you TRY to play down the real cause of this affliction. Comparing morgellons symptoms to drug missuse. you can't explain the physical evidence that has been shown...becuase your a lier. Trying to explain the physical manifestations would make your "theory" false.
Awake
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Post by crystalriver on Mar 26, 2009 9:41:49 GMT -5
Hi Alan glad to see you back and I agree with both you and awake on this one.
We will be shining the light on the whole truth on this --if we don't it will continue to happen or happen again and it is why I have stuck around as long as I have--I mean to ensure it never happens again!!!
By the way Grady, or MRC whatever--if you think for one second you will ensure a cure when you don't know the full why of where it came from or how it happened you've missed the boat entirely.
Keep in mind if they did it once, doing it again will be no problem; you find a "so-called" cure and they tweak the recipe to get by the cure--your playing their game and Trisha is using you to do it or you've sold out.
Do you know nothing of the cancer bs or the AIDS debacle and where it came from? The point is to kill off the natural and replace with artificial--I'm sure it goes way beyond that--
May I suggest research into "old" literature or there are some new books that have a great amount of information just to give you a bit more base than just listening to Trisha S.
This woman is full of crap and out to do harm to those of us on discovery path---hope the money is worth attempting to sell out the rest of us.
Understand you have responsibilities; but there is always another way---
Many Blessings, CrystalRiver
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Post by sunnydaze on Mar 26, 2009 12:51:47 GMT -5
MRC -
I have to underscore what others are saying. You have to stop listening to that Trisha woman. She constantly pulls stuff right out of her arse and presents it with GREAT AUTHORITY, only to contradict herself a couple of days later in the very same fashion.
I went to your blog just now - how the hell does she know that the hexagonal shapes that most of us find sooner or later are NOT MEMS? She needs to take some of that money she is making and get those chips looked at by a legitimate lab, not her own unbased ideas of what is what.
Any true scientist KNOWS that "looks are deceiving". Independent lab analysis, dna analysis, etc are NEEDED before these wild assumptions can be made. She is NOT a scientist - she is no more than an RN, despite calling herself a "microbiologist" among other lies.
This woman is more dangerous than Morgellons Watch. At least their agenda is an open book. What is hers?
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Post by maggiemae on Mar 26, 2009 18:49:35 GMT -5
Taken from Dr. Castle's paper: " Ozone-Hole Remediation - The composition most notably utilized in Ozone-hole patching is elemental Selenium and an Aromatic Hydrocarbon such as Toluene (Benzene component of Gasoline) and mixed isomers of Xylene. Sprayed from Stratospheric flying Aircraft, films of this toxic mixture fall into the area just above the Troupopause, the Ozone Layer. Ozone or triatomic Oxygen forms rapidly upon the irradiation of the Selenium and the Hydrocarbon with Ultra-Violet/Actinic sunlight. This is the identical photon/chemical reaction that causes Ozone Alert Days and is problematic. The solid-state reaction of Selenium and Ultra-violet radiation is the same as the reaction that occurs during Xerography. Copy machines generate minute amounts of Ozone when the Selenium Toners are irradiated with UV light sources."
Chemtrails..... Mm
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ppy18
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Post by ppy18 on Mar 26, 2009 21:05:38 GMT -5
wow....some mean spirited comments. i guess i will add my 2 cents-worth in. mrc/grady. love you man! i thank you for your efforts to make some logical sense out of this mess. your blogs have logically spelled out how one of Dr Wymores initial findings could in essence explain many of our symptoms. the very symptoms that are earning us all DOP dxs. most of this information has been available and widely discussed on our boards for sometime. by theorizing that Wymores pudita finding could be significant and following this lead you showed how the collembola could be a very likely secondary infection as many morgies claim. linking the pudita and the toluene to show that motile fibers and plastics are an end result should have doctors squirming in their seats. is it fact? maybe. does it seem likely? given the information you have provided I would have to yes......in fact HELL YES. any Dr who fails to treat or gives us psychotropic drugs for symptoms that no longer seem so CRAZY should be given a copy of your work . if they refuse to acknowledge the possibility that our symptoms could be legit should be fired and reported to the AMA. even if this turns out not to be our smoking gun you have at least shown that our symptoms are scientifically plausible. keep fighting the good fight grady. now to address the Trisha comments.... i know Trisha personally. You people should be d**ned glad this women is on your side. does she have morgellons ? No. was there a time when she thought she did? Yes. As far as pushing her products let me give you the real scoop. Trisha has given away far more of her products then she has sold. why? because she wants to help people and her products do help relieve Morgellons symptoms. I use them. Trisha has sent me over $400.00 worth of her products gratus...... that means for free......I think. Not only has she helped me but she has reached out to other morgies here in Georgia that i have requested help for. Her original product was formulated in an attempt to ease severe eczema symptoms suffered by her mother. Eventually she patented this product and began selling it out of her home . She has never claimed to have the cure. She has done what any business person with a decent product to offer would do. She marketed it to those with the most need for it. People like us, people with eczema, dermatitis, dry skin....... I have never seen her misrepresent her product as anything other than what it is. So whats the problem? She isn't "trolling the boards" I promise you. What she is doing is trying to help save our asses. I know of no one in this community who works harder for our cause. Not to sell product but because she cares about us. Trisha has lost in the neighborhood of 200000.00 as a result of her passion. You want to know what her attitude is about it? As Trisha would say "aw f u c k it . it's just money"! This is a women who is making a difference . If you can't take my word for it then do a little digging for yourself. It's very easy to sit back and take pot shots at people . We are our own worst enemy and will continue to be so until people put their egos aside and use a little common sense when deciding who is friend and who is foe.
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MRC
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Post by MRC on Mar 27, 2009 7:16:13 GMT -5
ppy18, Thank you so much, yes, I am Grady and have been posting over at LymeBusters for years, many are convinced on this board that I am Trisha Springstead, I am not. However, I do like Trisha and find her (like you) to be a very kind and generous woman who is working tirelessly on our behalf. She admitted to me she has made some mistakes, we all have. Now, I know for whatever reason some folks here don't like her, we can't like everybody. But I'm amazed I'm being called a liar (with no proof or sane argument to back it up) and sent from some higher power to misdirect everyone from the horrible truth, the mass conspiracy behind Morgellons. That is a sure way NOT TO GET medical help and to keep credible folks who might otherwise help us away for fear of being labeled a cook and having their careers destroyed. Awake, you registered on LymeBusters and you are the one made such accusations against me: Isn't it so obvious that everyone's running an agenda -- .Either your deceived or you are working as a governmnet agent. Speading disinformation as always to lead the vulnerable astray. It is so obvious to see. Do you really think you can push this into the dark indefinitely...Well you are wrong. The dark is going to come to the light. you TRY to play down the real cause of this affliction. Comparing morgellons symptoms to drug missuse. you can't explain the physical evidence that has been shown...becuase your a lier. Trying to explain the physical manifestations would make your "theory" false.Now that your registered on LymeBusters why don't you ask them about me? Or read the threads about my blog posts on LymeBusters, nobody is making any such claims of coverup or that I'm part a vast conspiracy, the very opposite in fact. You offer no evidence and like ppy18 says "My theory does walk through the very symptoms and tie it to actual evidence that could explain it" such that I have not seen done anywhere else. I'm not angry with you, I too have lashed out at folks, we are sick, angry, tired, and at times desparate, believe me, I know. You should see the search words that bring people to my blog such as "Morgellons Meth connection" and all kinds of keywords. People are searching for help and or information on this. Unlike most articles that claim we are meth users, I took that issue off the table and explained how it could be that we are compared to them. I have received emails from people who absolutely could not believe Morgellons was real until they read my blog. There's barely a mention of the evidence I have presented on my blog in this thread, it's mostly attack and accusations. I am not the enemy folks. Now, here is a sneak peak into my next blog post, still following down the line of Toluene, and this one is going to be a real eye opener. Growth coincided with iron reduction. Toluene was oxidized to CO2, and the chemical reaction of CO2 production and Iron reduction indicated that the test completely oxidized toluene to carbon dioxide with iron as the electron acceptor. Magnetite was the primary iron end product during toluene oxidation. Magnetite is the most magnetic of all the naturally occurring minerals on Earth.
I have several people who had Dr. Staningers toxicology tests done that find high levels of Toluene in their blood and Dr. Staninger said to one of the LymeBuster members that she finds Hippuric Acid in Morgellons patients (a metabolite of Toluene). I think I was asked why I ignore Dr. Staningers evidence, I don't, and have spoken to her on the phone, and have the deepest amount of respect for her. Validation of Hippuric Acid as a Biomarker of Toluene Exposure www.springerlink.com/content/qrcv1buv8ae3p0v8/And now, I am going to tie Toluene to our Magnetic and Electrical properties, and by the way, Dr. Staninger often talks about how Morgellons patients carry a high electrical charge, she is correct, and I think Toluene will be able to explain why. And for you chemtrail fans, you're going to like my next post, there is something falling from the sky, guess what it is? (You'll just have to wait for the post)
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Post by sunnydaze on Mar 27, 2009 9:15:53 GMT -5
Good God, MRC - don't you realize how far out of your league you are? Do you have any background in physics or toxicology? Because a certain thing is present in no way yields a comprehensive explanation for this exceedlingly complex affliction. You are completely ignoring the extensive work that Wymore has done on the fibers, as though it either doesn't exist or is irrelevant. And what about Citovsky's finding agrobacteria in Morgellons victimes? Again, irrelevant?? What about the extensive findings of Staninger pointing to high density polyethylene, silicon/silicone, etc? There are MANY things present in people with Morgellons, and to grab a toe of a huge beast and try to "explain" it when you have no background is why people like awake and others MISTRUST you. Oh - and Trisha never claimed that her products were a "cure"? Just ask her if she ever did. And - seeing how she claims that this is a "parasite" infestation - how do you account for that? The only scientist who has offered a comprehensive theory that explains every piece is Dr. Staninger. There are three reasons why people continue to chase their tails trying to be microbiologists and physicists rather than accepting Dr. Staninger's work. The first and foremost is that very few people have read her research; the second is that it is very complex (naturally) and hard (if not impossible) for the layperson to understand. The third reason is that people simply can't wrap their minds around the fact that we have been and are being experimented on, despite a long history of such activities in this country. People need to open their minds and read from the scientific pages. There is a movement seeking to find immortality through the fusion of man and machine that has been underway in Silicon Valley. Read this: www.allbusiness.com/trends-events/conferences-conventions/11740874-1.htmland then this: singularityu.org/ And if you thik that the US Gov has not experiemented on it's people without their knowledge or permission, read the next post. sunnydaze
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ppy18
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Post by ppy18 on Mar 27, 2009 10:44:39 GMT -5
what's the problem here sunny? Grady has given credit to Wymore and Staninger when citing where his research has led him. Nobody is discrediting anything as far as I can see. All Grady has done is take some of the findings that have been released publicly and expounding on what those findings might mean. Out of his league? Well aren't we all ? The sad fact is that we have been left hanging out to dry by the CDC and the scientific community at large. We all feel the desperate need for answers and many have taken it upon themselves to investigate. How many of us now own microscopes? How many theories have been floated over the years? What I find incredibly telling is the anger and hostility being directed at someone who simply read the available research findings on Morgellons Disease and followed the trail it could follow. Grady has always made it clear that he is theorizing the what ifs of these findings. So why does this seem so threatening to you. It is distracting those who would like to hear what the man has to say. You disagree with the premise, fine. But ranting about what is in fact a very logical conclusion makes you look like the one out of your league. It also makes me wonder what the real issue here is. You're pretty smart sunny. If you actually read the blogs then you know that they pose no threat to anyone in this community. In fact they offer detailed evidence to support our symptoms in many instances. Check your ego Sunny. You discredit us all with this type of bullnuts. Let us make up our own minds without offering up distracting and unfounded personal attacks. Tactics like these were utilized by those at Morgwatch and it is infuriating to see them used here by our own people. We are all in this together so lets try not to rip each other apart OK?
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ppy18
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Post by ppy18 on Mar 27, 2009 11:01:00 GMT -5
forgot to address the trisha statements. Is parasitic infection part of morgellons? Very likely and if you read gradys blog you would see that parasites are a good bet if pudita is involved. pudita is the favorite food of collembola......as stated in gradys post. And if Trisha ever stated that her product could help cure us then she probably believed that to be the case. So what? Trisha has always pushed accountability in diet and hygiene too. if we find out that diet has no effect on Morgellons disease should we shoot all who support a restricted diet regime? thats a helluva lot of people. Personally I find that it is best to judge a person based on their intentions not their achievements. We all make mistakes, but our intentions should be honorable in all of our efforts for this cause. I have to admit that your intentions seem a little questionable right now. I hope I'm mistaken.
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Post by sunnydaze on Mar 27, 2009 12:19:52 GMT -5
I am NOT out of my league because I make no claims for knowledge that surpasses that of the real scientists researching this. Despite having a scientific and research background, I wouldn't dream of attempting to trump any of the true scientists. I read them and study what they say, but I do not nor have I ever advanced any "theories". If you read back through this thread, many people believe that Trisha is deeply involved with MRC's blog, may even be writing some of his stuff. It would be one thing if she kept her information straight, but she mixes up the scientific work that has been done. For example (as above) she claims Citovsky had something to say about "biofilms". It is her influence on new or desperate people that is the issue here. She has burned through and alienated every group/scientist working with Morgellons. That has been through her confusion of their work, yet adamance about her misinterpretations that has been at the root of their distancing themselves from her. She is NOT the first one to talk about diets....been going on before she ever heard of Morgellons. And calling people with Morgellons "paranoid idiots" "whiners", "ungrateful", etc - doesn't sound very compassionate to me. Oh - wait - those are the people with Morgellons who refuse to put her on a pedastal. Therein lies the answer to the question of motivation. I have evidence for everything that I have written here. Here's an article from the NY Times giving the history of experiments on U.S. citizens by the government. The article was written in 1994. I wonder what more would be included if it were written today. www.nytimes.com/1994/01/25/opinion/the-worry-germ-warfare-the-target-us.htmlMy intentions? To try to stop the path of destruction and conflict this woman has caused.
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Post by morgellonsdoc on Mar 27, 2009 17:19:18 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the article from the NYTimes. Isn't it interesting how little information of that nature has made it to mainstream journalism in the last 15 YEARS?
I am a psychiatrist who has Lyme Disease and Morgellons, and who treats them. I learned of my Morgellons diagnosis last October at the ILADS conference in SF, diagnosed by Cindy Casey. At first, the amount of information (and misinformation, perhaps) on the internet was overwhelming and downright terrifying.
Seeing Dr. Stricker's keynote presentation at last year's conference in Austin was reassuring to me, because something like this had been seen before in history. Dr. Sir Thomas Browne described the children's symptoms in 1600s Morgellons, France which resembled some of my symptoms. There is apparently a historical precedent for a known bacterial pathogen in humans to (probably) have swapped DNA with the nearly-homologous DNA of an agrobacterium. This hybird then tries to grow cellulose-like fibers which eventually get rejected by the immune system as foreign--literally kicked out to the curb.
This was a very comforting explanation, and I ruminated on it for a while, thinking it might explain most of my ongoing symptoms. Plants can produce weird colors, shapes, etc., and clearly these are mutant runaways.....It still didn't explain why I thought it must have been scabies at the beginning, picked up perhaps at one of the public health clinics where I work....the signs sure looked and felt like that at first, and I even thought I saw what might have been a bug or two.....and maybe Permethrin and Ivermectin kind of worked and kind of didn't.....
My patients and colleagues in the ILADS and Morgellons communities (some of them in the "e-community") have been teaching me that there is probably a WHOLE LOT more to it than that. Some people really have bugs and bug parts coming out of their skin. Some people have little sparkly hexagons, such as sometimes emerge from my skin. Some just itch until they can hardly stand it. Many suffer horribly because nobody believes them. The Tree Man in Indonesia has a huge load of HPV in his system (and has been doing much better recently :>).
If bacteria and plant DNA can be shuffled together, why should it stop there? Some people I'm sure do have parasites and parasite DNA involved--maybe most people with Morgellons. Humans have "bioengineered" bacteria that can eat an oil spill---couldn't some of these hybrid creations be processing toluene and other pollutants into their own sculptings? Dr. Browne in the 1600s even wrote that the hairs seem to draw off the noxious infection, leading to subsequent healing....(I'm paraphrasing from memory, but got the gist of it, I believe).
Not only has humankind contributed previously unknown pollutant compounds to the new "primordial soup", what has happened with biological warfare is unconscionable. I cheered when I read in Pamela Weintraub's book that Dr. Burrascano accused the IDSA of leading a population-wide "Tuskegee Experiment" by denying the existence of chronic Lyme disease. That was not just hyperbole....
Part of the problem, possibly a BIG part is the d**n mycoplasmas. These tiny "stealth bombs of DNA" were engineered for biological warfare starting after WWII (remember all those Nazi scientists who were given safe haven in the US?). Engineered from repeated refining and chopping up of the ho-hum Brucellosis bacteria, they are virtually undetectable and can infiltrate the entire immune system, bending any cell structure they encounter, to their will. Some scientists have noted that the higher the load of mycoplasma, the worse the infection, such as a greater concentration causing HIV, slightly lesser=ALS, lesser=MS, less than that CFS and fibromyalgia, etc.
That sounds simplistic and I was skeptical of the phenomenon at first too. I doubt that the explanation is simple, and I'm sure I don't understand all of the complex processes involved. However, there are people who were involved in the development of the mycoplasma who have come forward, and people who exposed the treachery and lost their jobs and academic standing. The most chilling revelations come from Drs. Garth and Nancy Nicholson, who exposed that mycoplasma contaminated the vaccines given to the recruits in the first Gulf War, and also was given intentionally to prisoners in Texas (they published a "fictionalized" account of their experiences in their book "Project Day Lily", available on Amazon.com). Prior to that, it was assumed that mycoplasma was used only in bombs designed to fly into the Iraqi desert (and not just fired by the "enemy", either).
Their revelations pick up where "Lab 257" left off. What is so horrendous about the mycoplasma is that it appears to be highly infectious for some people. Prison guards and their families were also succumbing to the same rapidly-progressing ALS symptoms as the prisoners. I personally know whole families who are affected by mycoplasma after a family member returned from the Persian Gulf. The stuff is BAD, and nobody wants to admit to developing or disseminating it.
Is there a cover-up? Almost certainly. Is there a further conspiracy? I'm not sure if one is necessary, considering how effectively the bug disables the population (that was the original plan--disable people enough so they cannot fight, rather than outright, instant genocide). I doubt anybody thought it could be infectious from person to person, though, and I don't think anybody understands why.......
BUT, as with Lyme and Morgellons, there are strategies for relief, if not yet cure. Antibacterial treatments, antiparasitic treatments, even antidepressant or antianxiety treatments (see Cliff Mickelson's moving essays elsewhere on this web site) may be pharmacologically appropriate. However, they will be far less effective in a vacuum. There are dietary measures which can support the immune system, oral supplements which can support the immune system, Rife machines than can help with magnetic and electrical polarity issues, and cosmetic/hygienic products which can help.
I've been corresponding with Trisha Springstead for about a month now, and believe that she is a passionate advocate with a strong point of view about parasitosis which does not exactly match my own view of parasites' role in Morgellons. I don't doubt they may be the main factor for some sufferers. In my region of the country, it seems to veer more toward the "agrobacterium" variety (appearing similar to Mary Leitao's initial experience with her son)--but it could change at any time. The planet is warming, new pollutants are combining, and if the mycoplasma load increases, who knows what else is possible.
I can understand the allure of more simplified viewpoints, and that may even be the true situation for some of those afflicted, but for others it sure looks extremely complex, and when there are coinfections which are also of a chronic and relapsing nature in the mix, we are facing a REAL challenge in medicine. Another reason for the medical "establishment"'s denial of the scope of the problem so far---how in heck is the medical system going to handle all this? To admit that it exists means to take some responsibility for trying to alleviate it!
If I developed a product that I thought could help offer people relief, I think I would probably patent it too. There is one other physician who has gone public with having Morgellons, and she has a product line (my understanding is also that she is not able to practice medicine due to the severity of her symptoms). Presently, I lack the creativity to think of new products, but have nothing against someone making something available to provide relief, and making enough money to keep producing it.
I'm much more disenchanted with the Big Pharma companies who are swarming to sell their expensive, brand-name products to supposedly treat the "symptoms" of fibromyalgia (which they didn't recognize as "real" 10 years ago), rather than looking for a cause and a real treatment of the cause.
I have tried Trisha's products and I believe they do provide some relief and support of the immune system. Most importantly, they do no harm, and can be of some help. I believe that they are produced and marketed in good faith, and they were originally developed as a labor of love for a dying parent for whom the medical establishment had no more to offer. I'd try to do the same for my mom.
We all have stylistic differences and differences in our core beliefs about what is going on with Morgellons. I do believe that everyone who is logged on to this web site cares about Morgellons and is trying to do something to help alleviate the suffering, even if our styles and approaches differ. I doubt that anyone is intentionally trying to do harm to Morgellons sufferers in general. I'm sorry that there appear to be personal animosities between people on this blog post, but I have a feeling if you met each other and didn't know who the other person was, you would probably find way more in common than there are differences......and maybe agree to disagree, for now......
I'm still in the "trying to grasp the gestalt of it all" phase, and probably will always be. I probably wrote unscientifically or imprecisely about some of the phenomena above, so definitely do not quote me about anyone else's research--go ahead and look at the original sources yourself. I do find that Mr. CS thinks about issues in a similar manner, even if he and I have some differences in our interpretation of the significance of some of those phenomena in our own particular situations.
Corresponding with him, Trisha, and now all of you is still deepening my understanding of this phenomenon. Though my understanding of it will never be perfect, I know for certain that I have a WHOLE lot more to learn......
If any one you come to the Austin conference, I hope we will have a chance to meet in person. Thank you for allowing me to free-associate here, and to the web site sponsors for the freedom of expression for us all.
Live long and prosper, AW
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Post by sunnydaze on Mar 27, 2009 19:38:20 GMT -5
Welcome, AW - Yes, indeed, this is an exceedingly complex affliction. It defies any single-organism explanation, especially when you begin to hear about bizarre symptoms even beyond your own. Whatever the ultimate explanation turns out to be, it will have to account for all of it, not just little snips of this or that. Maybe getting there will have to be done piece by piece, like establishing the composition of the fibers, verifying the presence of agrobacteria, etc, but they are all pieces. There are all kinds of speculations out there, but my money is on the highly trained scientists who have the background and foundation to explore this in a meaningful way. Dr. Wymore has done some very careful analyses of Morgellons samples, and consults with other scientists/doctors for confirmation. He used the Tulsa Crime Lab and FBI database to help establish that the fibers as unknown. He has also subjected them to FTIR analysis but is waiting for replication before publishing results. It is that kind of careful, sophisticated investigation that will produce meaningful results. Despite having some pieces of information, he has never once jumped into any conclusions or ventured to conscruct any hypotheses. Dr. Staninger has done an enormous amount of work with Morgellons, and has all her patients undergo extensive blood and urine testing. Toluene, a common solvent that is found in many products including petroleum, is among many. If you go to her website - staningerreport.com - and click on "current report", she has an extensive and detailed explanation for Morgellons. She explains Morgellons as being caused by some very sophisticated and complex technology. If you stick with it, explanations for why "we" have high levels of EBV & CMV, silicon, heavy metals, among other things makes sense. The Morgellons "machinery" makes many things, using bits of genetic material from all kinds of things - bugs, plants, things from the sea, bacteria, fungus, mycoplasma, etc. These plasmids are used to make all the bizarre "things", using building blocks found within the body itself. Most of the building blocks - minerals (esp magnesium and potassium), vit D, calcium, etc., are all necessary consituents of the human body. The major ingredient that is NOT a normal part of the body but is absolutely necessary for Morgellons to operate is PETROLEUM. This may well be why she tests for toluene. As you will know, many things are synthesized from petroleum, including plastic. As at least some of the fibers have been determined to be various types of plastic, you can see why it is necessary. Petroleum can get in the body many ways, including inhalation. But another way is through the ingestion of other products synthesized from petroleum, including prescription medication. sunnydaze
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ppy18
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Post by ppy18 on Mar 27, 2009 19:41:29 GMT -5
Well Sunny at least we know what your problem is now. It really has nothing to do with Grady does it? Given the ridiculousness of your rant I should have realized that it wasn't the content of his blogs. I found it hard to comprehend how such an intelligent person was failing to grasp the obvious logic staring you in the face. But I see that he just presented a perfect opportunity for you and your henchmen to spew your nasty personal opinions about someone you don't even really know. Make no mistake I know where this little group originates. It disappoints me to know that people who are supposed to be making a difference for this community feel the need to instigate these type of petty grievances. You don't like Trisha? Nobody's problem but yours. I did notice you and teresead are new members here and it seems awfully coincidental that you both joined just in time to comment on this thread. At least I can respect the opinions of the members who have genuine concerns. You need to keep your personal feelings in check because this stuff makes us all look bad. You all didn't like it when people at Lymebusters were taking pot shots at Cindy did you? It was uncalled for and unnecessarily distracting. The same applies here. Let it go. Trisha is not writing anything for Grady. Grady is the one who put the pieces together. I can assure you that neither feel the need to lie about where the information came from. As for Trisha going through researchers.....can you back that up? Are you talking about Wymore? I assume you are talking about their disagreement about parasites being involved. That does puzzle me a bit since he was very receptive to the evidence she presented to him when they met in Atlanta. But that really is an issue between those two. Why does that threaten you? How does it affect you personally? I certainly see no threat to the integrity of his research because of this dispute. The bio film comment attributed to Dr Citovsky came in a personal communication with Trisha. Don't believe me? Ask him yourself. Again, petty petty bullshi t. I guess I'll end by congratulating you on being one of the few Morgellons sufferers who has not yielded to the temptation to try and "trump the real scientist." You must have a lot of confidence in the CDCs study huh? Or maybe you are banking on us being able to fund the research. Don't hold your breath on that one Sunny. Too many people sitting on the sidelines and wasting precious energy with their own personal issues. Maybe we can take this up at the conference. I don't have the typing skills nor the patience to continue this discussion now. ppy
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MRC
New Member
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Post by MRC on Mar 27, 2009 20:43:31 GMT -5
Again thanks ppy, I wish I could write like you and you are correct, I know where this static is coming from, such a shame, it really is.
Anyway, to CrystalRiver, you said something that made me realize that on my last post I stated an error, nano structures do form larger structures which eventually can be seen by the naked eye, so infact, the fibers could be the end result and I will make a correction on my next post, thank you for that. I do listen, and am willing to learn.
I wont hang around here and cause problems, I have never been on a Morgellons forum like this one, that's for sure. So much anger and angst. But would like to leave with this statement.
Sunny, you seem so willing to believe the worst in everybody, including Me, Trish, and the United States or whomever it is that is really trying to kill us all (but they have the secrete antidote I suppose). And that link to the NY times was merely an opinion piece in the opinion section of the paper and offered no proof of anything?. I do know about past experiements where the US has done bad things, I'm no dope on that issue. But the author you are referring to comes from Berkley where hating America is in vogue. Regardless, none of that has to do with my blog, unless you think I am a government agent trying to cover everything up, and that would make me one of those with the secrete vial full of the antidote. It seems hard to believe that anyone could really believe that. Having said that I wish you the best and no ill will. I wont post here again. Sorry everyone. I cannot believe your comments above on Toluene given that is what my blog is all about? It seems we agreed more than we disagreed, I never understood your anger?
If big pharma comes out with the cure, good luck taking it is all I'll say.
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Post by crystalriver on Mar 27, 2009 22:12:58 GMT -5
Grady, the anger wasn't at you and no we usually aren't on the attack--I'm not mentioning why at this time--it doesn't matter in the scope of things.
LB has had its fair share--personally I don't relish it anywhere-- some like to watch the fights ---I feel it detracts from our real purpose --finding the maker of said agent that caused this!
Those that put this upon us relish in our attacking each other, nature--animals birds and insects--kill off the natural--so they may have more control. If they can get us to destroy ourselves --it makes their work so much easier.
It keeps the eyes off of them also---I have no time to waste and yes I have learned from you Grady and read many of your posts at LB--in many things we have been on the same page and just because we don't agree on everything doesn't mean I don't support what you are doing.
Every blog out there that brings more light on this condition is going to help--less of course those who have obviously been paid to misinform and cause pain, i.e. Morgs Watch for instance.
I was at this board as one person attempted to contact me while I'm having computer problems--couldn't even get a phone #. Next thing I hear is about a suicide--apparently this affected me deeply as it keeps coming back--her name was Karen--before she came here she was dealing with Morgs watch. How sad is that? May they be held responsible for their coldness and lack of compassion!
We don't need to detract from each other; obviously those that did this have done quite enough of that already!
There are many that would like to go to the conference but for distance or lack of funds they are unable; but we support NMO.
Many Blessings, CrystalRiver
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